Dave's very good friend Brendan McGirr
has been arrested for common assault on a Traffic Warden and
section 4a of the public order act for using abusive words
with intent to cause her alarm. The following is a transcript I
was sent of Brendan's police interview (which he attended
voluntarily). There appear to be some very peculiar going's on
in this case, which I hope to be able to bring you shortly. In
the meantime, please note that the incident occurred on the 24th
October 2002, but the Warden did not make a statement until the
29th November 2002 (more than FIVE weeks later, when it might
seem that it could hardly be considered fresh in her mind!). The
crux of the matter appears to be that Brendan left his car for
only one minute. He spotted a warden approaching his car, but
when he remonstrated with the woman warden who was booking him
he says she threatened him because her husband was a serving
police officer. Read on:
STG Fuller: This interview is being tape recorded. I am police Stg David Fuller currently attached to Eltham police station the other officer present is PCPC Mckim currently attached to Eltham police Station. We are currently in Interview room four at Plumstead police station and I am currently interviewing, could you please state your full name and date of Birth please;
Brendan: Brendan Patrick Mcgirr 23 of the 4th 67
Stg Fuller: Do you mind if I call you Brendan?
Brendan: By all means
Stg Fuller: The other person present is;
Peter Crow: My name is Peter Crow I am a legal representative from Nelson Guess solicitors and my role here is to protect and advance my clients legal rights
Stg Fuller: Thank you very much
Brendan: Could I ask you a question? Would you have any objection to me using a Dictaphone while the interviews on?
Stg Fuller: What! You will get a copy of the tape I will explain that afterwards
Brendan: The only reason I specify that is that I witnessed my father many years ago in a interview a police interview and the tape was denied to him for 9 months
St Fuller: Your tape won't be denied to you, your solicitor will be issued with one before you leave
Brendan: Thank you
Stg Fuller: No problem. The date is the 12th of December 2002 the time by my watch is 2034 hours. Right Brendan I must caution you, you do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not answer a question which you will later rely on in court, anything you do say may be given in evidence. I must also tell you that at this present time you are not under arrest so you voluntarily attended the police station today and at any time during this interview if you decide to leave you can do at any time. Do you understand that?
Brendan: Yes thank you
Stg Fuller : Also if at any time during this interview you wish to talk to your solicitor you can do. Do you understand?
Brendan: Yes thank you.
Stg Fuller: Right Brendan I'll like to speak to you regarding an incident that occurred on the 24th of October 2002 in Francis Street which is Woolwich South East 18. The incident occurred at around 1218 hours
Brendan: It was 1221 actually
Stg Fuller: OK, if you say it's 1221
Brendan: That's what's on the card
Stg Fuller: That's fine I'm happily to say
Brendan: It's just something that stuck in head that's all
Stg Fuller: That's fine I'm happy to say it's 1221
Brendan: OK mate.
Stg Fuller: In regards to that incident what occurred their we've had an allegation by a parking attendant that a altercation occurred their resulting from that altercation the lady in question attended Woolwich Police station to make a report.
Stg Fuller: With regarding to that incident there is their anything that you would like to tell me in your own words what actually happened.
Peter Crow: Can I just ask a question officer? Can you tell me when that lady made that allegation?
St Fuller: Yes on my report it was 1240 on the same day.
Brendan: Funnily enough on that same day, after the altercation I actually myself went to Woolwich police station where I was actually not allowed to make a complaint by an officer their, who told me that I could not make any complaint against this women their and they told me I had to go to the Parking Office. So I actually did go to the police station on the day in question immediately after that because of what actually happened to me.
Stg Fuller: What I would like Brendan is for you to tell me in your own words prior to you going to the police station could you explain to me what happened in Francis Street between you and the Parking Attendant.
Brendan: OK I was attending the dry cleaners on Francis Street which I regularly visit, as I parked the Vehicle I was aware that the Parking Attendant was their maybe 100 Yards away. Now the man in the dry cleaners knows me very well. I literally was picking up 4 items and if you actually look at Francis Street theirs a pub on the corner where the Road widens out and theirs like a place where the vehicles park to deliver the beer actually. So what I done I made sure the vehicle was in that area and it was literally an across the Road journey to the dry cleaners and because the Traffic Warden made a bee line to the vehicle when I left it I said to the guy in the shop "One Minute" and the guy in the shop didn't even charge me for the clothes cos he said "you've better go, pay me next time." So I was out of that vehicle less than 1 minute I do know that and by the time I arrived back at the vehicle the women was smiling and pulling the ticket out of the machine and I said to her "surely you can't be giving me ticket? I've been less than a minute" and I can't remember word for word cos it was 6 or 7 weeks ago but her words to me were "You shouldn't have parked their knowing I was here" which first of all I thought was a little bit harsh to say the least so I said "Well you can see I'm going love I haven't actually been here for minutes and minutes I'm just getting my cleaning and going" but she said "well it's too late" so I said, excuse my language now but I was angry at the time I said "I think that's fucking pathetic" and that was how I reacted. The women then said "Now don't push it my husbands a police officer" and I did say "Well I don't see how that's got anything to do with it" she then said "well with what's on the ticket it can actually cause you a problem so don't be cheeky to me." So I went "Fuck you I don't really give a fuck about you and the way you're talking to me right now. I intend to report this matter I am not here to be intimidated by the fact that your husbands a police officer". No disrespect to you two sitting their, but I am now shocked to find that I bought the matter to you people to say you have a women on the streets actually boasting in an arrogant manner that her husband is a police officer and members of the public could become victim to her anger via her husband, it puts him in awkward position and it's certainly not, I mean this women's job should be to use common sense to keep traffic moving, in my opinion as a member of the public I believe that her job entails her to liaise with members of the public to keep traffic moving and not causing altercations. But unfortunately she choose to have a arrogant manner and I did actually I have to admit I spat on the floor in disgust when she said I had the ticket. Remember this happened very quickly this incident and in the middle of spitting theirs no doubt that some spit went on to her uniform I never deliberately spit in her face I was coughing and I was frustrated at the time trying to express myself but I never at one point intimidated the lady or made any attempt to do anything other than raise an issue here which I felt needed to be addressed, in other words sir if I had been guilty of parking the vehicle their for more than a minute 10 minute 15 minutes by all means I should be entitled to a ticket. I've paid the ticket but why if you can answer to me, why this women is allowed to make such a statement and then I am charged, not charged but bought in and cautioned after this incident then perhaps in all fairness theirs something wrong with the system.
Stg Fuller: Can I just stop you their for a second, thank you for what you've said their, just to clarify can you tell us what vehicle you was in and the registration number
Brendan: It was a Land Rover Discovery I think it's L263RBD, but because of this women's actions I've actually sold the vehicle now because I'm scared of the repercussions, and I'll like to point out on that day two officers also visited my address and actually spoke to my Father but left no identification or anything to concern this matter and then I wrote you people a letter three days later asking you what on earth was going on cos I can understand why officers would visit and then leave but
Stg Fuller: Right Brendan can I just stop you their and get back onto the track OK
Stg Fuller: Right so just to summarize, you parked your vehicle their and you were their just under a minute you've come out you didn't like the way the lady spoke to you and you say she made some remarks some threats to you
Brendan: Well you've heard what I've said
Stg Fuller: I'm just summarizing yeah
Stg Fuller: That her husband was a police officer the fact that you felt she said she could get your details the fact that you did spit but didn't
Brendan: It wasn't intentionally at her
Stg Fuller: You didn't spit at her face but some of it went on her clothing
Brendan: I was spitting in angry and frustration and I didn't directly spit in the women's face but some of the spit went on the floor and it did go on her uniform. I was just so shocked at her statement
Stg Fuller: So after you gone to the Police Station I believe you were directed to the London Borough of Greenwich Neasden House, you attended there is that correct? What happened their.
Brendan: I spoke to a lady in their who told me that I couldn't make a complaint their either and in the end I had a heated debate with her to get what they call a counter presentation which I then wrote in and said yes I spat and some of it may have gone in her face,but it wasn't an intentionally spit in her face.
Stg Fuller: You just said to me you didn't spit in her face that some of it went on the floor
Brendan: Yeah but on the day that I wrote the actual thing I did say I spat in the women's face but I described it wrongly and if you look at the note it's a very brief note so this is hopefully the way which we'll explain it all
Stg Fuller: So why would you say you spat in her face when today your saying you didn't spit in her face.
Brendan: No If you listen to what I said, I said I spat in frustration and anger and spit did go in her face but on the day when I said that I wrote a brief note cos I knew the women must say that spit went on her face
Stg Fuller: Brendan just a minute ago when you said first of all that it didn't go in her face it went on her clothes
Brendan: It wasn't directed at her face
Stg Fuller: Your saying now then that spit
Brendan: I'm saying it wasn't directed at her, it may have gone on her face but it was directed at her face
Stg Fuller: I'm just clarifying cos at first you said it didn't it went on her clothing now your saying
Brendan: It went on her clothing you'll find that when someone's angry as I'm sure you guys are, that the spit may have gone anywhere, like I was fuming at the time cos I just thought it was outrageous
Stg Fuller: Brendan I'll like to show you here a piece of A4 paper headed as Counter Representation and it's sealed in a police exhibit bag and you can see the seal number is C5512878 and it is exhibited as CB1. Do you recognize that piece of paper? and can you tell me what that piece of paper is?
Brendan: Yes it's a piece of paper that I wrote the stuff on their. If you'll like to read it to me
Stg Fuller: No I'm just going to summarize a couple of things OK. On the front here
Peter Crow: If you want to read it all out cos I'll tell you why, it's very easy to take out things that are suitable to you but not covering my clients point
Stg Fuller: OK I'll read it out
: : It is with deep regret that I find myself making this complaint on the date above at 1221PM A member of your staff which vaguely resembled a women issued a ticket after watching me spend no more than 1 minute away from a vehicle and in a very apparent matter and great delight telling me that I committed a parking offence to which I objected and to which I called her a "Fat Ignorant and incompetent idiot' to which she replied that her husband was a serving police officer and with the information on the ticket she could gain access to my home address and she would see to it that my vehicle was logged as of a police interest and I now feel I am now a possible victim of a vendetta of this women's ignorance and I have evidence of police corruption and have witnessed it and I feel I am now in danger.
I spat in her face for making such an outrageous comment and I would also like to add that I have three witnesses to this incident and the point I would like to make is that this thing is abusing its power for intimidating reasons and I would demand an investigation into the allegations being made. I trust you will take this matter seriously.
Brendan: I said I spat in her face their but I was being honest with you I spat in two or three places in anger.
Stg Fuller: Brendan you said you called her a fat incompetent idiot. Do you remember saying that?
Brendan: Words to that effect
Stg Fuller: Well this is quite fresh in your memory here cos you've gone round to the police station then straight to Neasden house. So one would assume it is quite fresh in your memory.
Brendan: Well no because it had taken me nearly two hours to get to that stage after leaving the police station.
Stg Fuller: So you're saying it wasn't fresh in your memory
Brendan: Well of course it was reasonably fresh but word for word if you want to be picky on words.
Stg Fuller: No not word for word but you've stated in here "I spat in her face for making such a outrageous comment."
Brendan: Well I take that back, that note their would have been wrote in absolute frustration and anger as it says on the top of the sheet so I apologize if it's come out wrong but I am telling you the truth that I spat in frustration and that women's uniform may have been covered in it but it wasn't deliberately intended for her face and some of the spits gone on the floor. I do apologize now that I lost my cool a bit but you must understand sir that as a member of the public when treated with such words by someone like this I'm no more than a motorist stopping in the shop for less than one minute and I've come back and found myself, it's cost me up to sixty pounds for being their less than one minute and also now because I've made a protest to the women about it. She said her husband is a police officer and she can actually pass information on to him
Stg Fuller: Brendan let me read a statement out by this lady, this statement was taken on 29th of November 2002 this statement reads
Brendan: Is that actually a long time after the incident?
Peter Crow: Yes over a month
St Fuller: I am Teresa Berry I live at an address known to the police I am employed by Greenwich Borough Council as a Parking Assistant in the Parking Department at Peggy Middleton House at 50 Woolwich New Road Woolwich South East 18 on the 20th of October 2002 I was at work at the above address, I was in and out of the front office all day between the hours of..
My apologies that is a statement of the lady you went and spoke to.
This is the statement of the Victim.
I am Mrs. Denise Heather Cook I live at an address already known to the police I am employed by Greenwich Borough Council as a Parking Attendant I have been employed by them for the past three years. On the 24th of October 2002 I was at work and was walking down Artillery Place Woolwich and I turned into Francis Street.
Brendan: Could you just confirm what date that statement was made?
Stg Fuller: 29th November
I turned Francis and saw a Green Land Rover parked in the Loading Restriction, I crossed the road and started talking the vehicles details down. A man came out and started shouting abuse at me he came over to me and said "You fucken scum, you fucken cunt' he then started to spit into the Road. He then said "Let's make it worth it and spat at me. It went into my hair and then started running down my face and onto my jacket he only spat at me once. I said to him "I'll be reporting you to the
police" he then said "The only good cop is a dead one" I said "I will tell my husband
that" I then walked away into Artillery Place. I radioed my control and reported it and told them I was going to Woolwich police station. The driver of the vehicle L263 RVD pulled up alongside me he then started shouting "You fucken cunt and then spat at me again' but none of it hit me he then drove off towards John Milton Street the man was wearing a Green Bomber Jacket a Cream T Shirt and Jeans he had short mousey hair and was balding on top he spoke in a London accent.
Brendan: I'm a little bit frustrated with the balding on top to be honest
Stg Fuller: Alright
I was on leave on the Friday and in on the Saturday but have now been off work ever since, the incident has caused a lot of stress and harm and I have lost all my confidence I would find it difficult to confront people in my line of work at the time he spat at me I felt sick and thought he was going to hit me as he was very aggressive I washed all my clothes and had to have bath when I got home because I felt so dirty I was scared for myself because of the verbal abuse I felt alarm and when he pulled up alongside me and started shouting again I thought he was going to assault I was alarmed he was doing it for a second time.
Brendan: Now I think what we have here is, if I can just make a comment, is we have a situation where this women has made a statement and reacted to and I have no qualms about what I have said. When time has passed she realized the problems of what she said and is now making allegations which are befitting what's happened
Stg Fuller: I put it to you Brendan, I would say the times I've had any dealings with parking attendants
Brendan: Their always honest
Stg Fuller: I didn't say\'85that one of the first reactions once they've given a ticket is to move on as quick as possible as they do get a lot of abuse from members of the public because nobody wants to pay parking fines we take a chance and if we get a ticket we get one
Brendan: I fully accept that
Stg Fuller: Now I put it to you that when you got a ticket for this the lady in question wouldn't have wanted to stand around to start telling you that her husbands a policeman
Peter Crow: that's Suposition officer we don't know that for a fact it's not mentioned in the statement
Stg Fuller: I just mentioned
Peter Crow: No your presuming that she has put it in her statement
Stg Fuller: I putting it to him then I'm going to ask him whether or not
Stg Fuller: So I put that to you did that happen?
Brendan: Sorry I don't understand what your saying their
Stg Fuller: What I'm putting to you that this lady giving you a ticket and the fact that it wasn't her that said my husbands a police officer I'm going to get you, what you've stated
Brendan: So what you're saying to me in effect officer and correct me if I'm wrong that whatever I've said to you you're now discarding it
Stg Fuller: I'm not discarding it I'm putting it to you, I'm asking you is that correct or not?
Brendan: Can I just put something to you as well then. I'm telling you that's not the that case and what I would like to put to you is just can you actually tell me is their any case in the justice system where on oath a traffic warden or any member of police witnesses have ever been convicted of perjury?
Stg Fuller: I don't know
Brendan: Cos it always seems to be the member of the public is always assumed to be the guilty party
Stg Fuller: Brendan on the same day attended Peggy Middleton House made a statement in your writing and admitted in your statement that you spat in her face
Brendan: And I've been 100% honest with you their
Stg Fuller: On you statement their you've said that I called her a fat ignorant incompetence idiot you've even turned round her and said "a member of your staff that vaguely resembles a women"
Brendan: Read the top of it, it says with deep regret that I write
Stg Fuller: So you were angry and on this day did you spit in her face
Brendan: Not deliberately spit in her face I spat on the floor
Stg Fuller: So where did you spit then?
Brendan: I spat on the floor and on her
Stg Fuller: Tell me when you spat where were you aiming? When she was standing in front of me where were you?
Brendan: I spat, but through my speaking
Stg Fuller : When you spat where were you directing your spit on
Brendan: She was standing in front of me I was standing to the side..
Stg Fuller: How far was she
Peter Crow : Let him answer a question theirs no point him being here if you're saying your bit not letting him answer questions, give him a question and he'll answer it, please
Stg Fuller: He's answering my questions
Peter Crow: But every times he's starting your you're butting in the middle of it, ask the question and let my client answer, please
Stg Fuller: How far was the lady from you when you spat?
Brendan: Possibly two or three feet I suppose
Stg Fuller: When you spat what direction did you spit?
Brendan: I was actually speaking and when I was talking and in sheer frustration I was actually shaking my head and when I'm speaking I'm coughing with frustration and flems come up in my throat and when I'm spitting it could have gone anywhere, I'm trying to tell the truth here I'm being honest with you it wasn't a deliberate thing and for what that women said and done to me, if you were to take your uniforms off and put yourself in my position ask yourself how I would have felt take your uniforms off for one moment and put yourself in my position ask yourself how I would have felt. And I really would prefer if you wouldn't stare at me in such a funny manner sirs.
Stg Fuller: Did you say to her "you fucking scum you fucking cunt'?
Brendan: No I wouldn't have used them words
Stg Fuller: Once the lady had walked off did you then approach her again in your car?
Brendan: No I believe
Stg Fuller: Brendan once the lady had moved off did you approach her again in your car?
Brendan: No I actually spent time doing other things OK
Stg Fuller: Right I will tell you now Brendan it is 2056 hours by my watch I must tell you now I am reporting you for common assault on Denise Cook and section
Brendan: Whose husband is a serving police officer?
Stg Fuller: And section 4a of the public order act
Brendan: Could you confirm that please?
Stg Fuller: For using abusive words
Brendan: Could you confirm that?
Stg Fuller: Let me finish please, with intend to cause her alarm
Brendan: OK if that's how you see it
Stg Fuller: I must caution you that you do not have to say anything but it will harm your defence if you do not mention when question something you later rely on in court anything you do say may be used in evidence. I've no further questions you would like to clarify before I conclude this interview.
Brendan: I've told you everything that I can and I would like to clarify the fact that I have actually approached the Met police with a complaint and I am actually shocked and in disbelief you're actually charging me with common assault after I have been threatened and if you want to charge me with that I have to accept it
Stg Fuller: OK
Peter Crow: I would just like to ask a question, have you ever met this women before?
Peter Crow: How did you know her husband was a serving police officer?
Brendan: Because she informed me on the day that her husband was a police officer
Stg Fuller: OK Brendan thank you again for coming to the police station I'm going to conclude this interview.